Dili 5 April 2000
SRSG: Before I leave Dili next Friday I would like to apprise you of the
main developments in the mission since I last met you.
The PKF has two main scopes: security of the territory and support for the
other two pillars of UNTAET. The security situation is calm and under
control.
The threat levels in the western districts have been reduced, and that is a
welcome development, and tension has decreased overall in the last two
months. [By this] I mean internal tension. We hope to be able to sign the
MOU with the TNI on border management next week.
The PKF has been facilitating the transportation by road, sea and air of
support of the humanitarian pillar and it has also been coordinating closely
support by its engineers to the GPA engineering capacity. Here I am thinking
in particular of the help the Bangladeshi battalion is providing us in the
repairs of the Becora prison.
As you know, on 27 March we inaugurated the new Police Training College here
in Dili. You know the numbers, 50 trainees of whom 11 are women. In the next
batch we are hoping that more than fifty per cent will be women. This is a
good sign also for the recruitment of the new civil service.
There are also cadets from all the thirteen districts, which therefore
provides for broad representation in the newest Timorese police.
I also wanted to inform you that I have sworn in on 24 March the five
Timorese and two international members of Public Service Commission, which
will be in charge with the recruiting of civil servants, and in fact
recommending them to me for appointment. I repeat that we are hoping to have
a lean and efficient civil service - one that the future East Timorese
government budget can support.
The Commission has already met twice and is already discussing concrete
terms of employment, conditions of employment hours of work and holidays.
As soon as the cost of living survey is completed it will also be deciding
on the new salary scale for the civil service. Last but not least on civil
service matters, the Civil Service Academy will start on 1 May and it will
begin modestly with the training of trainers on language, management and
vocational skills.
On the judicial system, you remember that I appointed 12 judges and
prosecutors in January. I met with them again ten days ago and I must tell
you that I was quite impressed with their assertiveness and self-confidence,
and with the progress in their training. This shows that even though some
of the East Timorese, perhaps many of the East Timorese we may be recruiting
into the new civil service, into the new judiciary, into the new police,
might only have university training or other types of primary school or
secondary education, they are more than capable and eager to learn. What I
have seen at the Dili District Court ten days ago gave me the conviction
that we are on the right path. As a result, I will be appointing another 12
judges and prosecutors tomorrow that were recommended to me by the
Transitional Judicial Services Commission, led by Bishop Basilio do
Nascimento. Most of them will be appointed to Baucau and Oecussi. So we are
beginning to spread this new judicial system to districts other than Dili.
Seven judges and three prosecutors will be appointed immediately to Baucau,
and one or two will be deployed to Oecussi where the population feels the
need for judicial support, judicial action, particularly on minor offences
that can not obviously be dealt with from Dili.
The judges and prosecutors that I have appointed in January have received
training in the last couple of months in human rights and forensic
techniques. They have also, as you know, been advised by a team of
international judges that are working with UNTAET and who are backing them
up. I have already told you that that I am very, very satisfied indeed with
the progress achieved.
I would like you to pay a particular attention to what I am going to say
now, especially our East Timorese media colleagues. It relates to the
involvement of Timorese people in the administration of this country.
Yesterday, in the meeting of the NCC I briefed the members, well some were
absent but I have been keeping in touch with those who are absent,
especially with Xanana Gusmao, I briefed the members and obtained their
endorsement for the establishment of District Advisory Councils. I will be
issuing an instruction to all District Administrators today asking them to
establish these Councils with broad participation of representatives of
political parties, the Church, women and youth groups. We wish to establish
advisory councils in the districts that are representative of the East
Timorese civil society more than was possible in the NCC.
I will also be instructing our colleagues to appoint as many women as
possible. Not just women form women s organizations, but women representing
all the sectors of the East Timorese civil society. Unless we do that we
will not make progress in asserting rights of women, to which UNTAET and the
CNRT are fully committed.
Secondly, and this is another important decision, I am considering, in fact
I have decided, to appoint Timorese as deputy district administrators and
Timorese deputy heads of departments in our public administration her in
Dili, in the central public administration.
These appointments will go through the Public Service Commission so that
persons that I will appoint are selected on the basis of their personal
qualities, competence, integrity and not because they belong to given
political party, or because they happen to be known to one or the other
influential figure in this country. So, these persons will serve the nation,
will serve the people not particular interests.
I am also requesting the Public Service Commission to launch the recruitment
of the 7,000 civil servants that we are planning to recruit into the new
East Timorese civil administration in the year 2000. What we will be
witnessing in the coming weeks is this dynamic transformation of UNTAET,
which is perceived by many as an international superstructure imposed on the
East Timorese population although I hope you have realized [that] we have
not been working that way, into a new East Timorese civil administration.
[It will be] composed of civil servants recruited in each sector of activity
by the Public Service Commission and through the appointment of deputies at
the central and at the district level, with decision making, executive
authority. These deputies will have many international staff, many UNTAET
staff under their authority. I believe this is a significant step forward.
You know that NCC has been accused by some of being a secretive body, of
lacking transparency, and to some extent these perceptions are correct even
though that is not our intention. So, in order to open up the NCC to public
scrutiny in the last two sessions of the NCC I have decided to invite, with
the consent of all members, representatives of non-governmental
organizations and yesterday also of Falintil. Yesterday we had a number of
NGOs sitting in the room, as well as commandant Emeno of the Falintil, and
contrary to the rules of the NCC I also gave them the floor, for them to
express their concerns, ask questions and we had a very interesting debate
in which Jose Ramos Horta, who is not a member of NCC, also participated.
This is another attempt at involving more representatives of the East Timor
civil society in decision making.
Finally on this matter of consultations with East Timorese people - I have
received on Monday representatives of the Muslim and of the protestant
communities and discussed the specific situation of the Muslim community
here in Dili. I also sought their support in conveying our message to the
Timorese people, and support through advice and particular concerns that
both the protestant and the Muslim communities might have so as to improve
our ability to respond to our expectations. I have also requested the UNTAET
Radio to be open to messages from these communities, and in fact,
immediately after they met with me they were interviewed by Radio UNTAET, it
went into the news and was immediately broadcast. In fact in their
interventions yesterday, they were not so critical. But I told them that we
don t mind criticism, as there is no democracy without the right to
criticize.
Let me move to social questions [that], as you know, we have been facing
here in Dili with frequent demonstrations of job seekers, of the unemployed.
I have received a group of them on Monday afternoon and we had a very good
discussion. They explained to us their disappointment; what they perceive as
a confused way in which UNTAET has been advertising vacancies, distributing
application forms without proper information, without proper indication if
when replies would be provided to different groups of applicants. We have
agreed to take measures to establish a centralized job, employment bank, in
Dili to begin with and possibly in all the districts at a later stage.
[This is] so that people can apply only once, leave their record, inform us
of their skills. Then any employer, be it UNTAET which cannot employ all the
jobless Timorese obviously, or the World Bank through its labor intensive
projects, or any other potential employer can go and match their needs with
the labor offer in the market.
Unemployment is related to reconstruction and you know that we ve come under
criticism for the slow process in rebuilding, or building, the country. I
have been explaining time and again that destroying is easy and rebuilding
is extremely difficult, lengthy, time consuming, if we want to do it in a
sustainable manner. So, last Saturday I signed half a million [dollars]
project, funded by the World Bank and to be implemented by UNDP, which will
provide some 600 jobs for people from different succus in Dili. It will
focus on cleaning up the rubble and debris, and this should improve the
looks of this town and make it easier to repair and rebuild, and reoccupy
some of the buildings especially here in the downtown Dili in the coming
months.
You remember that I signed with Jim Wolfhenson when he visited Dili the
famous Community Empowerment and Local Governance Project, and I am told by
our friends in the World Bank that the first payments to communities will be
made very, very soon. These early disbursements will enable communities to
carry out rehabilitation works, with emphasis on local procurement and local
employment.
The infrastructure program, which as you know was appraised by the Asian
Development Bank in late January-early February, has now been approved and
will be signed this week. That is the first large-scale reconstruction
program [worth] close to 30 million US dollars for roads, power and ports.
The contract will be let quickly for five road projects and should be
mobilized by mid-May. This will be the first materialization of very hard
work on the part of the Bank and UNTAET on the preparation of reconstruction
programs.
Small and medium enterprises is one of the World Bank projects to which I am
particularly attached, because it will provide local, East Timorese
initiatives with credits, with cash to go ahead with their projects. This
should be signed shortly. I was in contact with the World Bank in Washington
last Friday, and the money is available. I hope I get to sign it before I
leave on Friday. Otherwise, we will sign it by fax. The main idea is to
promote the recovery of the private sector, of the East Timorese private
sector. Not foreign companies, not foreign investors but East Timorese
private sector.
Finally the grant agreement for the education sector will be signed towards
the end of April. The health and agriculture sectors programming missions
are working in country right now.
Few words on the visit to Jakarta, because I am sure you will be asking
questions about that so I don t need to go into details. First I went to
Kupang for a meeting with the Defense Minister Sudarsono and Major-General
Syhanakri. Later [I traveled] to Jakarta for meetings with president Gus
Dur, Foreign Minister Alwi Shihab, again Defense Minister Sudarsono and
Attorney General Marzuki Darusman. I also met all the representatives of all
the donor countries, including all the five permanent members of the
Security Council. In Kupang, I also met with Mr. Armindo Mariano, former
Speaker of East Timor Parliament. And, in Jakarta, I met Mr. Domingos Soares
and five of his colleagues. As you know, Domingos Soares is the leader of
UNTAS, the pro-autonomy umbrella organization and I can brief you on all of
these meetings in a moment.
I will be leaving on Friday afternoon. I am visiting Tokyo first, attending
a conference of the trilateral commission and then holding meetings with
Japanese officials. From there I am travelling to Beijing for meetings with
Chinese Government. I will then move on to Singapore and Kuala Lumpur for
meetings with both prime ministers and the other representatives of
Singaporean and Malaysian governments. And between Beijing and Kuala Lumpur
I am planning to take a week off in China with my sons.
We are working very closely with the World Bank, the IMF, UN agencies and
the Timorese in preparing the Lisbon Conference. We have agreed at the
donors conference in Tokyo in December last year that we will have a follow
up conference in Lisbon. (next sentence inaudible)
Q: How many people are currently employed in projects facilitated by UNTAET?
Do you have a figure on this?
SRSG: I honestly don t, but it is difficult to say that projects are
facilitated [by UNTAET]. We have all kinds of small projects going on right
now. Some of them are funded by our Quick Impact Project Fund.
Q: How many people are employed under that program?
SRSG: I don t have these figures. I believe that in total there are 2,000
under our QIPs. But then you have other QIPs by UNHCR, by OCHA; you also
have bilateral projects which are implemented, in coordination with us, by
UNDP and other agencies. [They are] funded by DFID, AusAid, by USAID, never
[worth] more than half a million dollars and are also providing employment.
The figure is still being put together, a few thousand I would say. But not
many, not enough.
Q: (inaudible)
SRSG: That figure is an arbitrary figure. I don t know who came up with that
figure. I believe that it is fairly arbitrary, unverifiable. What we know is
that unemployment is a serious problem. I keep repeating that it is my
nightmare in urban centers like Dili. But, how many exactly are unemployed,
I don t think there is a reliable figure.
Q: Is there a plan to establish some rules governing workplace relations?
SRSG: Workplace relations, what do you mean by that?
Q: Industrial relations.
SRSG: You see, we have colleagues from International Labor Organization in
Dili right now who are helping us in different areas. One of them is legal
conflict prevention and resolution; the second is labor laws, and I presume
that was your question; and the third one is what I mentioned the
establishment, here first and than in all the districts, of employment
banks. In these employment centers people can turn up, provide their CVs,
indications of their skills and where employers can go and seek interesting
applications, rather than having Timorese apply to different employers
without any indication when they might, or might not be employed.
Q: Do you have any idea when will these ILO experts, in consultation with
Timorese judiciary, have something in place, some kind of legislation or
regulation?
SRSG: No, I can not give you a precise date. We had on Saturday afternoon
when I returned from Jakarta a large meeting here, which they attended,
where these decisions were taken. They are here only for a short period of
time. They are working with our GPA colleagues, but hope is that they will
produce this before they leave.
Q: When will the survey on the cost of living, that you mentioned earlier,
be finished?
SRSG: This survey was requested by the NCC, and without which they said, and
they were right, was impossible to decide on the new salary scales for the
civil service. UNDP is coordinating that and it should be ready by
mid-April. It began in mid-March and I was told it would take about a month
to complete.
Q: While in Jakarta, did you invite Domingos Soares to come and visit East
Timor?
SRSG: Yes, I invited both Mr. Armindo Mariano and Mr. Domingos Soares and
those who were there with him. I can provide you with their names because I
am sure East Timorese friends know them: Domingos Policarpo, Manuel Boavida,
Jose Ferreira Martins, Florenco Mario Viegas and Francisco Fernandes. I did
invite them to come and visit Dili. This was also an invitation from
President Xanana Gusmao, with whom I had discussed this just before I left
for Jakarta, and just before he left Maputo for Brazil.
With Domingos Soares we discussed a letter he had addressed to me on 9 March
and my reply to him, which attempts to provide the clarifications he was
seeking on the electoral process last year, on the outcome of the Popular
Consultation while at the same time reminding him that there is an empty
seat [on the NCC]. An empty seat that was very visible, very noticeable in
this room during the special meeting of the NCC on the occasion of President
Wahid s visit here on 29 February. I drew President s attention to the fact
that the seat is empty and that a representative of UNTAS would be welcome
to join us.
I made this point again to Mr. Domingos Soares. He asked me to
pass a very positive message back to President Xanana Gusmao and to all the
members of the NCC. He agreed to discuss my letter and its annexes with the
leadership of UNTAS and to come back to me on the next steps. He was
certainly forward looking, he repeated twice that UNTAS did not support
violence, that UNTAS would do what it could to put an end to violent
tactics, and that UNTAS supported peaceful, democratic dialogue and was
hoping to be able to, sooner or later, to join the political process in East
Timor. I told him that, as far as UNTAET and CNRT were concerned, we shared
his views.
Q: You mentioned earlier centers for job seekers. Will this policy apply
only in Dili or in the districts also?
SRSG: We will start in Dili and then we will move to all the districts.
Q: There should be a mechanism to prevent movement [of population] from
districts to Dili
SRSG: I know that. I agree with you. We are conscious of the danger and we
are discussing with the World Bank the need for all these large projects
that I mentioned earlier to be launched preferably in the districts rather
than in Dili, so as not to attract more people to the capital. But I take
the point and I will discuss it with my colleagues to see if we can do
simultaneously what I mentioned, open one here but also at least a few in
the districts.
Q: We heard you talk about a program by UNTAET and CNRT to offer a seat in
the NCC to UNTAS, but what about human rights issues that people are waiting
for? (translated from Tetum)
SRSG: By human rights, I suppose you mean justice?
Q: Yes.
SRSG: I think Xanana and ourselves, and many more, have said clearly that
there will be no reconciliation without justice. The two go together. And we
have experienced that in many other similar situations in the past. So, one
is not exclusive of the other. You know that in late November, when we were
discussing the composition of the Consultative Council, it was held that we
should reserve three seats for political formations that had campaigned for
autonomy. Two of them have accepted, the third one in those days, the FPDK,
never replied. Now, the FPDK does not exist any more, and what we have is
this umbrella organization called UNTAS. I have, therefore, reiterated the
invitation we extended in December for UNTAS now to be represented in the
Consultative Council.
Justica means several different things. First of all, it means
investigating thoroughly and credibly that have been brought to our
attention or crime scenes that have been discovered. As you know, work began
with the Interfet military police. We took it over in January, and it is now
under the joint responsibility of our Human Rights Division and a special
investigation unit of CivPol and they are, as you know, conducting very
serious and thorough investigations including forensic analysis of all crime
scenes and bodies that have been exhumed. This will form a body of evidence
that can be provided to different jurisdictions. First and foremost, the
Timorese jurisdiction.
As you know, we have adopted about two to three weeks ago a regulation on
the organization of courts in East Timor. Section 10 of that regulation
stipulates that there will be a special court in Dili which will have
national jurisdiction and that will look into serious crimes, genocide,
crimes against humanity, war crimes, murders and serious sexual offences.
We also have, as you know, a judicial process beginning in Indonesia. You
remember the Komnas Ham investigation and report. I met with Attorney
general Marzuki last week in Jakarta on the conclusion of a Memorandum of
Understanding on legal, judicial cooperation between Indonesia and UNTAET.
As you know from the media, Attorney General Marzuki is constituting his
investigating teams and he intends to send one of these teams to East and
West Timor to begin the collection of evidence to launch the judicial
process in Indonesia. So, all the evidence that we have collected and will
continue to collect, will also be put at the disposal of Indonesian
judiciary, as well as at the disposal of any other jurisdiction that may,
through the proper procedure, request our cooperation.
But justice can also means other types of non-judicial processes. We may
have to resort to that in many less serious cases. Less serious in
comparative terms, because in a normal environment a person who sets a
public building ablaze would probably take 10-15 years in jail, certainly in
Brazil. But, in the particular instance of East Timor we can not fill jails
that we don t have. We cannot overload a weak judicial system. Therefore,
for these people who have not done bodily harm, who do not have blood on
their hands, we will have to find alternative, community service type of
sentences, outside the judicial mechanism.
Q: When is UNTAET expecting to have Timorese appointed [as deputies] in the
districts? (translated from Portuguese)
SRSG: I signed that decision today and it will take at least three to four
weeks [before the appointments are made]. We are expecting lists of possible
candidates for appointment, which would then go to the Public Service
Commission so that the appointments are made in accordance with the
regulation, in an objective and transparent manner without favoritism.
(translated from Portuguese)
Q: Do you have any concerns about the way some businesses are operating in
East Timor?
SRSG: Good question. Yes, I had concerns at the beginning, because it seemed
to be a free for all . Anyone who wished to open any small business was
able to do so. Things are now getting under control. We issued, as you know,
a regulation on registration of commercial enterprises so they must register
with us. The moment they register with us, they are also notified that they
will, when we have that capacity, have to pay taxes retroactively to the
date of their registration. So, it is not a tax-free regime that they joined
here, this is not the Far West. And my hope is also that through the normal
market economy mechanisms, those small enterprises that have established
themselves here, that are not sustainable, would not survive and will have
to wind up. But, the main purpose of the small and medium enterprises
project, through the World Bank, will be to enable East Timorese enterprises
to compete with these foreigners that have come with some capital and that
obviously have a favorable handicap with regard to the Timorese.
Q: Do you think that some of those businesses have taken an unfair advantage
of the situation?
SRSG: The answer is yes, but was the advantage unfair? I mean, they just
came in, they took advantage of the situation. Was it unfair? I wouldn t
want to pass a judgment, but we certainly cannot tolerate a free for all
type of environment to prevail for much longer.
Q: Apart from the registration process, what other mechanisms you have to
protect Timorese businesses?
SRSG: Have you read the regulation on commercial enterprises? It is pretty
demanding. Of course, as you know, ability to enforce that regulation in
particular is still weak. But, as soon as we have the capacity to enforce it
you will see [that] there are many objective standards by which we can asses
the performance of foreign and national enterprises in East Timor and bring
activities to an end if they are in infringement of any of the provisions.
Q: Have any specific businesses come to your attention?
SRSG: Well, some did, as you know, in December. But it was nothing
particularly serious. What I am concerned about is that we do not have small
and medium enterprises, preferably East Timorese, in sectors that are of
particular interest to the Timorese economy and the Timorese reconstruction.
I will give you an example: building material. Why should we procure
building materials abroad? It should be possible to open a number of small
and medium enterprises in East Timor that would provide building materials,
that would be able to produce furniture for the new administration. Basic
equipment that does not require high technology and that can definitely be
produced locally, provide employment, provide training to East Timorese. It
is the lack of these medium enterprises important for further reconstruction
and rehabilitation of the country that worries me, more than the presence of
a dozen or so small foreign businesses.
Q: What about large businesses that have a grip on the economy?
SRSG: Like which? What would you call a large foreign enterprise?
Q: Like (name inaudible)
SRSG: Which does what?
Q: Catering, a food enterprise. You are not aware of them?
SRSG: I mean, I am not aware of all the enterprises. Why do you think I
should be worried about that one in particular?
Q: Or companies like Telstra?
SRSG: Telstra is an arrangement, as you know, which was made in very early
stages to provide Dili in particular with a cellular telephone system. This
was a decision from Interfet days which I extended for a period of 90 days,
which I have again extended. You should ask Bob Churcher, the head of our
Infrastructure Department to explain to you what exactly are the conditions
attached to 90-days arrangement with Telstra. Because, in addition to
providing us with cellular services which we badly need, they are also
helping us rehabilitate the land telephones here in Dili and soon restore
the link with Baucau. At no cost to us. So they are obviously making profits
through the cellular system, but they are also reinvesting part of that
profit here in the country. Now, they don t have a monopoly in East Timor, I
want to be very clear on this. That is why we have given only these 90-day
authorizations for them to operate, and when the day comes, when we have the
capacity to go out with an international tender, they will be one among
other applicants.
Q: Why does the regulation number 12 [on provisional tax regime in East
Timor] not affect Timor Gap arrangements?
SRSG: Timor Gap is not easy one, but let me try to summarize that. You know
that we have inherited the Indonesian share of the Timor Gap Treaty and
UNTAET now represents the East Timor interest in Timor Gap Treaty. That
means that any monies that were previously due to Indonesia will from now on
be due to East Timor. This is an arrangement that has been made first
bilaterally between Australia and Indonesia, and later bilaterally between
Australia and us. I have signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the
Australian Government; I have appointed one of my staff as interim Executive
Director for East Timor of the Timor Gap Treaty. We are constantly reviewing
the terms of that understanding with the Australian Government. We had talks
with them two weeks ago in Adelaide and in Canberra. Mr. Mari Alkatiri of
the CNRT, and a member of the NCC, was also part of those discussions. So
what I am trying to explain to you here is that we are dealing with the
Timor Gap Treaty as a separate issue, not as part of any other regulation.
You would also probably notice in the regulation mentioned, that all
offshore and onshore natural resources will be dealt with separately from
that regulation.
